Marketing Your Health And Wellness Business With Kendra Perry
Today on the podcast I had the pleasure of interviewing Kendra Perry, an online business coach for health coaches. Her goal is to help health coaches build badass businesses. Kendra’s bold no nonsense approach to her coaching has made her stand out in her industry. She and I will talk about group programs, finding your niche and really growing your health business.
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Jamie: I am here with Kendra Perry. Kendra, welcome to the show.
Kendra: Hello. Thanks for having me.
Jamie: I’m so excited to have you on here. You’ve been on the podcast before, but it’s probably been, I don’t know, a couple of years.
Kendra: Yeah, I think it’s been awhile. I don’t even know how long it’s meant. Time is weird.
Jamie: So tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Kendra: Sure. Yeah, so I am an online business strategist for health and wellness coaches. I got my start as a functional health coach back in, I think it was like 2014 and grew that business pretty quickly. And what I noticed along the way was that a lot of my colleagues were, uh, broke as F. I don’t know if I can swear on this podcast. You can, they were broke. They were struggling to pay their bills. Um, and a lot of them were giving up. I noticed in my community, which I thought was weird and a sad and I guess I just didn’t realize that I had a knack for kind of the business and marketing and tech stuff that I didn’t realize that like everyone didn’t have that. So, um, and you know, around that time I also realized that I’m like, Oh, you know, I really feel way more passionate, way more interested, way more fired up in all the business marketing tech stuff than I did about health. So I decided to pivot and help my colleagues grow their businesses online so they could get their message out to the world. Cause I just think health coaches are so needed and their message is so important. But if they can’t grow their business then nobody’s going to hear it.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And so you, I just want to give you a lot of credit cause you crush the Instagram game. Like it’s nobody’s business. Like you’re awesome at Instagram stories and Instagram posting and all that sort of stuff. And I see you talk a lot about two things on there. I see you talk about niches and I also see you talk about um, group programs. Um, so I’d love for you to speak to just like how do you even get started with a niche? Cause I think that’s something that the podcast really could use some support with because I think everybody’s afraid to really commit to a niche.
Kendra: Yeah, I agree. And the reason I talk about it so much is because I really feel like it’s like people’s ability to choose a niche that not only feels right for them but is also profitable and can make them money really determines their business success. And in the hundreds of businesses that I’d have audited, I’ve never met one person who was like, I’m struggling. I need help. Where I also saw a clearly defined niche. Right. Or niche cause I’m Canadian. So I see, yeah. Talk to me about how people pick that cause I Mmm. I think people struggle to commit cause they’re afraid like, Oh man, there’s not going to be enough clients or there’s not going to be enough. Whatever. There’s their tens. I always see a lot of lack around that.
Yeah. And I think it is a really scary thing and people will feel resistance towards it, especially people who are in the space of helping people who are coaches, especially, especially my industry health coaches. They get into it to help people. So they have this perception that they just want to help everyone. But you know, when we neesh it’s not like we’re narrowing down to a tiny little market. We’re just narrowing down to a segment of the market and with all the people who are online, I don’t know how many people are online, like a billion, 3 billion, I don’t even know. You can’t just start by trying to help 3 billion people. Like it just doesn’t make sense. Right. And you know, I think people don’t realize that by trying to help everyone, you end up not really being able to help people because they don’t know you can help them and then you get confused cause you don’t know what content to create.
Yeah. So then you just kind of end up feeling really scattered and people who have specific problems who are looking for these specific solutions look at you and you’re like, Hey, I help everyone. And they’re just like, yeah, that’s actually not what I’m looking for. So it’s just really, really important. And I think in the end when it comes to choosing, you just have to choose something, right? Because you could choose a niche that doesn’t feel right for you. I’ve pivoted many times. You know, I, I switched my niche I think three times when I was health coaching and then I made a full pivot. So it’s not like it’s a ball and chain that you can never get away from. I think you just need to choose something and then, you know, commit to it for maybe six to 12 months and see how it feels.
Yeah. And I also think too, so often, especially in a health coaching industry, people make the marketing about themselves instead of making the marketing about the person that they’re helping. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like if you hear yourself saying, what do I feel inspired to share today, then you’re off your Mark. Yeah. And you’re not running a successful business because it’s not about you and how inspired you feel or what you want to talk about. It’s all about what they need to hear. Right. And what’s going to help them. So you know, you have to kind of get over this I guess need to help everyone and just realize that by niching down you’re actually helping people because you’re actually going to be able to connect the people who need your help. You know, like when I was in my, what got me into health was actually um, acne. I ended up getting adult acne when I was like 23 or something like that. And I was like, really? It was really debilitating. It really interfered with my life and I wasn’t out there looking for anyone to help me with their health because I didn’t think I had a health problem. I just thought I had acne. Right. So I was following people who said, I help you with your adult acne and not people who are like, I help you with your health problem.
Jamie: Yeah. And that’s such a good distinction because I think when people aren’t ready to commit to that big leap of a niche and say, I help people with adult acne versus a health problem, like you wouldn’t identify with saying, Oh, you have your health problem is blah blah blah. Because like you didn’t think you had a health problem and that’s such a good example of niching. So I’d love for you to also talk like how do you overcome that fear of actually committing to that? Cause I think that that’s something that people get so in their head over and I was used like the word head trash, they have so much head trash over overdoing that. And so like how do you actually make that commitment?
Kendra: I think it’s just about like jumping off and going for it. Right? I think, you know, the antidote to any fear is always action and there’s no other way to like, you just have to do it. It’s like riding a bike and it’s maybe not the best advice, but like when riding a bike, like if you want to learn how to ride a bike, you just have to get on the bike and ride it. Right. And it might just be a simple reframe of, of, you know, understanding that if you truly want to help people and connect with them on a deeper human level, then you need to speak their language, which means you need to niche. Because it’s true, like a lot of people may not necessarily associate their symptom with a health issue.
It’s kind of the different, I guess it’s would be the difference between like a general store and a specialty shop. Right? I want a really nice, like a [inaudible] machine and I want like a high quality one. Like I’m not going to Walmart. I could probably get one there, but I know it’s not going to be good and it’s probably going to break. But if I go to the kitchen store, I can probably get a really good one and I’m willing to pay more for it. So that’s what it comes down to. Like people will pay you more money, um, when they know they’re getting exactly what they want.
Jamie: Right? Yeah. I love that. So you have made some massive pivots and your entrepreneurial journey. And I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to witness a lot of those and partake in a lot of those. So one of the things that I think that you’re just phenomenal at is like creating these, these programs, right? And then launching them. And so you have a group, a course on group programs coming out, correct? Yes. It’s a group program of a group program. So I’d love for you to kind of speak to that and talk to me about how like you came to pick that and just how you’re helping people with that.
Kendra: So when I first started as a health coach, you know, I just wanted to work one on one with people and in the beginning it really fired me up and I was like, this is awesome. I love talking to people, I love educating. But I became very busy very quickly and I quickly started to sort of burn out and get very overwhelmed by that. Just basically looking at my Google calendar and it was just like wall of apart of appointments. I used to book them like back to back with no breaks cause I just was like, that’s how I thought I needed to scale my business. If I wanted to make more money and help more people. I just had to fit everybody in. And I burnt out very quickly with that. And I see the same thing happening to a lot of people in my audience and in my industry is they’re doing a lot of one-on-one work and they’ve kind of hit there peak and they’re exhausted.
They’re overwhelmed, which isn’t good when you’re a health coach cause you, you know, you want to be a good example, you want to be healthy. But I see a lot of my people just really burning out and they want to start group programs. They want to kind of go from that one-to-one to that one to many model. But it’s really scary, right? Cause you’re putting yourself out there and a bit of a different way. There’s also a lot that goes into running a group, the marketing, the tech and I, most of my people, they had this idea in their mind and years later they still haven’t put it into action because they just don’t know where to start. And in health and wellness, and I’m sure it’s true for many industries, like you got to know the health and wellness industry because the marketing, it’s a bit of a different beast then you know, if I, if then someone who’s a business coach who helps you know, people with business just in general.
But health and wellness is a little bit different in the way that you market and the way that you run these programs and in the way that you support people. So that’s why I decided to create the course cause I just saw so many people just not being able to take action cause they just didn’t have a roadmap or understand how to do it. Yeah. And so I’d love for you to speak to now, is this meant to be like for people who want to launch a course or for people who want a launch, like a group coaching program, like a mastermind or is it a little bit of both? Um, you know, I would say a lot of the stuff that I teach in the course could be applied to a course. It could be really applied to, um, maybe any type of one to many program.
But with health and wellness, I like to focus on like a group program, which I kinda think of. It’s like a course with the experience piece because with health and wellness, I mean everyone reacts differently. There’s so much individuality in our sort of unique biochemistry. So it’s really hard to just put out a course and have people do it on their own without having the support. Right. And that’s why I feel like courses in health and wellness, yes, they can do well, but I don’t know if people truly get the results that you want them to get without that support. So that’s why I really focus on the group programs cause the community. Um, and sometimes even creating a hybrid where it’s a group program with some one on one support. Um, work seems to work best from my opinion in health and wellness.
Jamie: Yeah, no, I just, I think it’s important to make that distinction, especially for our listeners. Cause I talk about like, okay, here’s a chorus model, right? With a start and a stop date. Here’s a group program, which typically might have a launch date but can also be evergreen, right? Yeah. And it’s longer than say a course, but then there’s also the membership model. And so what I’m hearing you say, it’s like, it’s almost like a course on steroids. Um, and I just want to make a distinction for our listeners because you’re so good at that health and wellness space and you know it so well. And so I think when somebody who is an entrepreneur can usually say group program, well they’re thinking mastermind, right? Like they are, that’s where their brain, and you know that because you run a mastermind. Um, but I just wanted to make that distinction. And I think it’s really important to talk about that because like the type of programs you’re talking about, do they have like a start and a stop date? Like talk to me about the model.
Kendra: Sure. Yeah. And I kind of discussed the various models because I think in the end you got to pick a model that works best for you. So within the program or within the course, I talk about, um, you know, fixate group programs where they have a certain end date and maybe you just launched them twice a day or twice a twice a day. Oh my God. Twice a year. Twice a day would be crazy. But you, you know, you launched them maybe a few times a year, but I also teach you how to have like a rolling, you know, like an ongoing enrollment with the group program, even if it is a three month program so that people don’t always have to live launch. And then I also discussed the membership model because I think within, um, group programs is you really need to be focused on the customer journey.
And I know when people talk about customer journey, they’re usually talking about before the sale, but I include after the sale within that, you know, and I think you know, once people are in your group program, once the three months is over, if it’s a three month group program, like what happens next? What if they still need support? And I see a lot of programs where it just ends, right? Like do you upgrade them into your one-on-one or do you sell them into a lower price membership or do they go more high ticket? Um, so I kind of talk within the course about the different types of structures that you can use and how you can, you know, map them out so that you always are, you have some, you always have something for the next step and you’re keeping these people in your world.
Jamie: Yeah, I love that because that’s, I mean, you’ve done, you have so much credit to be teaching this. It’s crazy because you’ve, I’ve seen you and all of our work together. I’ve seen you do courses, I’ve seen you do memberships, I’ve seen you do groups. I’ve seen you do masterminds, you’ve done them all. And one of the things that I really love about you, cause we’re both projectors, right? So we want to work super efficiently and not necessarily, you know, have to be on calls all day. I’m working more towards that model.
But I think for, for you, one thing that you do so well and this has been a very intentional decision on your part and I, I know this cause we, we’ve worked on, it is minimalist, right? Like minimalist business model, middle of medalists launching. So I love for you to kind of talk to our listeners about that with respect to groups because I think people get really intimidated about running a group or a membership or course because of the launching aspect.
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I like to run a lean business and I like to run like a minimalist business. I don’t like fancy bells and whistles. Like I don’t need all the extras. Right. But I think when it comes down to it, what really matters is the content and the experience within a group program, like the content should be really well dialed and the way you present it, the experience of the listeners should always be really dialed as well. But a lot of people put all this extra into it. You know, they spend all this time like branding it and creating these beautiful slides and this and that. And then with the launch they go, you know, do this super crazy launch. But I think you can do that. And sometimes I do do that. Sometimes I do bigger launches, but sometimes I do. Oftentimes I just do a light launch and I just launch it to like an email list. And I think with launching, a lot of the work goes into what you do before the launch and warming people up so that when it comes down to the launching, you don’t really have to make it a big, uh, a big deal or a big production.
Jamie: Yeah, agreed. Completely agreed. Completely. And I think, I think that model that you have with your minimalist launching, I don’t know if you’re going to speak to that in your group program at all. I would assume that you would, but I think, yeah, I think it’s such a cool thing that you do because a lot of times like there’s so many people out there, like you’ve got Mariah coz who’s got her accelerator launch process, you’ve got like the Russell Brunson launch process, you’ve got like, you know the product launch formula launch process, and a lot of those, there are so many bells and whistles and ads and emails and webinars and Facebook lives and all of this stuff. And it’s like, I think people get so intimidated by doing that so they don’t launch because they don’t want to have to go through all that pain. So I’d love for you to kind of speak to that a little bit because I think that that’s something that holds a lot of people back from moving forward.
Kendra: Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I don’t like those big crazy launches. I’ve done them and I was literally, you know, glued to my computer, eating out of a almond butter jar for like three weeks and I was exhausted, you know, and I, you know, the results were okay but I can get the same results from doing a lot less. So, you know, for me what makes the most sense is to just like, you know, come up with a plan well in advance. Um, I’m not the best planner, but I’m good with launches because two or three months in advance I come up with a plan and then everything I’m sharing in terms of content, in terms of emails up until the point is all around that topic. Now I know that’s not like a smoking gun or anything. A lot of people do that, but I find if you do that well enough that when it actually comes down to the launch, you don’t need to go too crazy because people are already warmed up for it. And you know, usually what I do is just schedule out. Like I love to launch through email. So I do the emails in advance. Sometimes I do a webinar, sometimes I don’t. And then I just try to like show up a little bit on social media everyday, usually on stories and just provide some value and
I take lots of naps. Yeah, I love that because I think oftentimes, I mean, in my career I’ve been behind the scenes of so many launches and yeah. Well let me just tell you, some have gone incredibly well. Some of them not, some have flopped, some have been like everything in between. And you see these people who just go through 30 email or 40 emails that they written and you know, a hundred social media posts in a week and all of this sort of stuff. And it’s just like, yeah, it’s just not landing and connecting with the people. So yeah. I love what you said about like preemptively making sure you do all that work in advance to make sure you’re connecting with your audience
Jamie: I totally agree with as well. And I just think that that’s such an important thing. And to your credit, you’ve really, I’ve seen you in the past year or so, just Mmm. Own Instagram stories and I, you’re one of the few people who I’m always like, Oh, what’s Kendra doing today? Right here. You’re up here because you have a great balance of kind of sharing pieces of your life but also giving tons of value.
Kendra: Yeah. And in my opinion, like Instagram stories are a fantastic educational tool and you know how most people will use them as they, they use it more for being maybe behind the scenes they show off like what they’re doing in their life. And I do a little bit of that, but I am a bit of a private person and I like to keep my life private. So you know what you see if my life is really just the tip of the iceberg. And that’s kind of where my comfort level is. But I just don’t think it’s about me when it comes to my audience. So the way I like to use Instagram stories is, is to teach and to provide value. And there’s so much you can do with Instagram stories with, you can do your direct to camera, you can, you know, do your imagery, you can share. And honestly it’s kind of like collaging for adults. So I have fun with it too.
Jamie: Yeah, no I liked that you say that though. Cause I think that it’s um, you know, I assume you’re going to walk people through all this stuff in that and I just, you know, I hear people Dole out advice, like be on every platform and do all of this stuff and it’s like I truly believe you should be doing one, maybe two platforms and do them really, really well and you, I, you’re someone who I think really does a great job at owning that one platform and so kudos to you on that. But
I also think creating, like just showing up and being the expert there is off tenfold in the long run and you can like speak to that with your numbers, right?
Kendra: Yeah. Yeah. And I agree with that too. Like everyone’s trying to be everywhere at once and you just can’t, like, it’s kind of physically impossible. So Instagram is the platform that, I mean Instagram stories specifically, that’s the platform that I really enjoy being on and try to be on a, it seems to get me the most engagement over the other forms of content on Instagram. But you know, I also like to be on YouTube because that’s more, I think everyone should have like an evergreen place to be, right? Like the place, cause it’s like your YouTube videos can be found over and over and over again and that feels like a good place to put your effort into rather than something that disappears after 24 hours. So I like to have the balance of both, but yeah, like all the other platforms, like if you see me on Pinterest or LinkedIn or Twitter, I mean I’m not, that’s someone else repurposing content for me because I just physically cannot be on all those platforms at once.
Jamie: Yeah. Cool. Um, I love for you to, um, share, I ask every listener on the show any Ninja tips that you have for our listeners? Ooh, like just in general.
Kendra: okay. Well since we’ve been talking about Instagram, I’ll give you my Ninja Instagram strategy that works really well for me. And you know, I think when it comes to social media in general, like the biggest hack I think anyone can ever tell you is that it’s about relationships, right? It’s about creating two way conversation. And anytime someone new follows me on Instagram, I do this as much as possible. I don’t hit all of them, but anytime someone follows me who I feel like is a health coach, health and wellness coach is my ideal client, I always reach out to them and I send them a little voice message and I, you know, I have no ulterior motives. I’m not trying to sell them. I’m literally just trying to get to know them. Uh, sometimes I’ll look at their feet. I’ll notice that we have something in common.
You know, the other day I noticed a girl had the same art Terex jacket as me, for example. And I just try to make a connection and have a conversation. And it’s really cool because if you can get that back and forth conversation going, then you’ve really developed a relationship and gotten to know someone, uh, which is cool. But then from like a strategy perspective, it tells the algorithm that that person likes your shit. So you will start showing up in their feed. They will start seeing your stories more. So that’s really engaging content on Instagram and with any platform in general, like if you are in direct message or private message with anyone, uh, it’s always a good thing. So that’s, that’s my big Instagram.
Jamie: I love that. I love that because I get so many of those bullshit. Yeah. Generic messages all the time on specialty and it drives me crazy. Like I got one the other day, uh, not to go on a tangent, but I think it’s relevant to this conversation. I got one the other day that it’s like, are you ready to your nine to five and start, you know, make that side hustle a reality. And I’m like, lady, I’ve been in business for almost 17 years. I’ve never had a corporate job. So no, I’m not ready to leave my job and start a side hustle. And I think the thing that’s so crazy about what I love that you’re saying is that like you take the time. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean I get those things all the time and I find it really frustrating and annoying cause it’s inauthentic and people like don’t like that.
Kendra: And I feel bad for those people because they’re probably getting advice from somebody is giving them really bad advice. Um, but yeah, it’s just like, you know, you would never go on a first date and ask for a baby and marriage. Right. But that’s kind of the same thing when you jump into someone’s direct message without talking to them and asking them to buy from you or you know, having those ulterior motives and it doesn’t feel good and you’ve lost that person forever if you do that, like they’re never going to be interested. Um, and so, yeah, an Instagram spot for that. LinkedIn is probably the worst for that right now. And it just doesn’t feel good. And so I try to make it personal. You don’t want to make it clear that I’m not trying to sell them. I’m like, Hey, I just want to get to know you.
Jamie: Yeah, that’s really what I want. I just want to get to know people. It’s all about the relationship. It’s all about the relationship. Kendra. So how can we get in touch with you? Well, probably the best way is to follow me on Instagram.
Kendra: My handle is at Kendra Perry inc. that’s Kendra Perry inc. and yeah, if you messaged me there, I do respond to all my direct messages and YouTube, you can just search Kendra Perry. Um, I have a YouTube channel where I do lots of, uh, video tutorials on business marketing, that sort of thing. So, awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Jamie: You dropped so much knowledge on our listeners. I super appreciate it. No problem. Thanks for having me. Fun to hang out.
Kendra: All right, well thanks for tuning in and we’ll talk to you all soon.